Copy P60

Stewart · Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 3:04 pm Post subject: Copy P60

I have read two different items regarding copy P60 and was wondering what your thoughts are.

From time to time we get employees requesting copy P60, what we have been doing is printing off a new copy but stamping it with "Duplicate" on it.

Is this correct, or should we do each employee a letter marked "statement of earnings" and show the gross pay and tax paid?

Confirmation here would be great.

Thanks Wink

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Ian Congreave · Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 7:01 am Post subject: Copy P60

A duplicate P60 used to be forbidden but, since 2003/04, employers have been permitted to provide a copy with "duplicate" written on it. The change was prompted by the need for employees to provide a P60 to support their tax credit claims and, of course, they frequently lose them!

See http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/pommanual/pomtey/pomtey02105.htm.
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Stewart · Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 8:32 am Post subject:

That is what I thought, however, I am told that in one of the payroll magizines this this, think it was PMR it is saying you are not allowed to print another one off! Rolling Eyes

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Ian Whyteside · Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 9:17 am Post subject: Copy P60's

As an addition to this i thought i would let you know that the acocunting profession has still not woken up to this issue. As Ian says we have been allowed to issue duplicates for some years now but have a look at the corresponding advice for accounting professionals, they use one of the accounting bodies for their information on payroll, and they still indicate that copy P60's are not allowed.

I notice that all their tutorial material, for education and training also says this. Interesting that a payroll advisor seemd to be giving out the same advice, wonder how that happened?

Ian Whyteside

Hugo Fair · PayPerShop Member Joined: 22 Jul 2004 Posts: 66

Only tangentially relevant to this topic, but it came up at a client recently - and I thought might be worth relating ...

The client is about to only supply payslips to employees in an 'electronic' format (i.e. via a browser where it can be viewed and/or printed by the employee). They've asked me to ensure that the "same facilities apply to P60s".

On further investigation, they had assumed that this would be "another document that would not need to be printed in future, since the P14s are now submitted electronically to HMRC".

I had to point out that (whatever my opinions on supplying Payslips only in electronic format), it was a statutory requirement to provide P60s on printed forms to employees - or rather to those still in employment as at 5th April for the year in question.

There are potentially good reasons for letting employees view their P60 data on-line (and even printing it off), but it should be printed as a YTD statement of earnings (not a P60 form) and does NOT replace the need for issuing a formal P60.

Hope my advice was correct - and that this helps.

keyur778 · PayPerShop Member Joined: 18 Jun 2007 Posts: 57

You can issue a duplicate P60 if employee demand it, but always keep the proof of evidence like their email request or letter in which they demanded the P60 so incase Inspector of Taxes ask at the time of PAYE inspection why you issude the duplicate P60 so you can show the evidence and explain them you already issued P60 but employee lost, destroyed or because of any other reason employee demanded so we issued duplicate P60.

When you issued the duplicate / copy P60 then you have to keep in mind that employee may not use wrong way.

Generally employee demand P60 on genuine basis and use as a bona fide.

Because some of the employee generally EU / Immigrant who knows they are not going to live & work in UK next year so they demand for duplicate P60 and give it to another employer, delayed to fill P46 and work two to three places as a part time employee so they can earn under the PAYE threshold and save the Tax & NI.

So beware of this type of misuse. So when you issued the duplicate P60 ask them where you are going to use P60 just for information.

Keyur Patel

Ian Whyteside · Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 11:43 am Post subject: Duplicate P60

Well this resurrects an old subject but perhaps its a good time to remind ourselves about the rules for P60 forms.

As we have established employers, thankfully, have the right to issue duplicate P60 forms upon request from their employee as long as they are clearly marked with the word duplicate or copy.

Hugo made a valid point about e-form P60's and to my knowledge employers are still not permitted to issue electronic P60's but perhaps this needs to be revisited because many employers have permission to use the Month 12/Week 52/3 payslip as a subsititute P60 so if those employers go to e-payslips does that mean the final one in the tax year cannot go electronic? Perhaps now that Keyur has raised the issue we can pursue this particular point.

I cannot agree though that employers need to be clear about the purpuse to which the employee will put the copy P60 because that, in my view, would be breach of the employees personal liberty. It is not our concern what they do with the copies and if they choose to use it for some unlawful purpose there can be no residual liability on the employer just because they issued it.

Similarly I would caution against any employer accepting a P60 as a substitute P45 and would strongly advise them to refuse it, insist on a P45 or go through the normal P46 process.

In any case, if an taxpayer decides to work in several places and earn under the thresholds in each one they are free to do so, employers and the law cannot stop them. It works as long as they accept the consequences in the long term, firstly that HMRC will eventually catch up with them for Income Tax and secondly they will fail to build up an entitlement to the basic state pension.

Ian Whyteside

Hugo Fair · PayPerShop Member Joined: 22 Jul 2004 Posts: 66

Two quite distinct issues are being conflated under this topic.

Electronic vs. Paper P60s:

The rule is that you must give a printed (paper) copy of a P60 to each employee still in employment as at the end of the PAYE year. There is no rule to prevent you also making the same information available in electronic format (e.g. via email or on an intranet) but this will not, on its own, constitute supplying a P60 to the employee.

If you do provide an electronic 'version', there are a few considerations:
a) If the information is capable of being printed-off by the employee, it should be clear that it is not a P60 (original or duplicate) - typically it is referred to as a 'YTD statement of earnings';
b) It can therefore be provided to all employees - and, in many cases, may be provided at regular intervals during the year (e.g. each pay period, not just at year-end);
c) If provided over a company intranet, it is likely that access will be denied to leavers - so would not be of use as a P60 alternative, say for 2006-07, to an employee who leaves on/after 6th April 2007.

Note: if you "have permission to use the Month 12/Week 52/3 payslip as a subsititute P60", then you should follow the same rules as for a P60 - i.e. "give a printed (paper) copy to each employee still in employment as at the end of the PAYE year", irrespective of whether the employee also has access to an electronic version.

Original vs. Duplicate P60s:

The only constraint on issuing 'duplicate' P60s is that each such document must be clearly marked as either a 'Copy' or a 'Duplicate'. This can be as often as requested - and the reason for a request is of no concern to the employer.

There is one other point on printed P60s:

Whilst the layout of the printed P60 is not defined by HMRC, other than that it should contain the same information as that shown on their stationery, there is a constraint:

You can only use either HMRC's own stationery or one of the 'substitute' stationery forms approved by HMRC for the relevant PAYE year. These forms may be pre-printed stationery that is supported by your software, or simply a report for which approval has been obtained from HMRC by your software supplier, but (in the latter case) must include HMRC's reference to the approval.

Hope this all helps.

Ian Congreave · Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 6:25 am Post subject: Electronic P60s???

I have nothing to add on the issuing of duplicate P60s other than to confirm that an employee's reasoon or motive for asking for one is not an issue for the employer.

On the subject of electronic P60s, I am already pursuing this with HMRC. As usual, they take forever to respond to policy questions but at least I have what I think to be confirmation that the instruction that P60s may only be issued in paper format is not based in statute.

In my first enquiry, back in April, I pointed out that I could see nothing in Regulation 67 of the PAYE Regulations that prevented a P60 being issued electronically. I suspected that the refusal was based on Regulation 211 which includes a Table to show which forms must be sent by employers to HMRC electronically. The Table says "No" to form P60 but, of course, it only says No because it is provided by employers to employees, not by employers to HMRC. The reply, which I received in June, reads as follows:

keyur778 · PayPerShop Member Joined: 18 Jun 2007 Posts: 57

As Ian has mentioned earlier, employer don't have right or interest to know where employee is going use P60 but when they misused and any legal inquiry come then that official wants to know weather employer is involved or not at that time employer has to prove that he or she has no interest on that matter. Thats why I used the word JUST FOR INFORMATION ask them where they going to use, so employer will be clear at that stage.

Employee has the right to work as many place they like but they don't have the right to save the tax illegal way.

Suppose employer is running the monthly payroll then his tax year will finish on 31 March and he will issue the P60 on that day and emplyee suddenly left the job after getting P60 and employee is not informing to employer and join new place on 1 April at that time employee might not have the P45,only he can get P45 or P60 not both so on this situation what to do obviously fill the P46 and send to HMRC as I have mentioned that situation regarding EU and Immigrant earlier. If revenue find the missuse of P60 then they may stop the pension for residents & citizens only not Immigrant who already left the country before the revenue have any action.

Even the point Ian raised its also correct but the point I have raised which generally arise with small employer not big companies.

Keyur Patel

Jennym254 · PayPerShop Regular Joined: 22 Nov 2004 Posts: 72

Keyur

The situation that you are talking about would not arise, because an employer would be very very unlikely to issue a P60 as early as 31st March. Don't forget that they have to balance their PAYE books before they issue the P60, which is why we are allowed up to the 31st May to issue them to the employee.

Agreed that employees are not allowed to save on tax illegally, but it is never going to be the ex-employer's fault if they do try to provided that the ex-employer has operated PAYE correctly in the first place.

It is correct than an employee cannot be issued with both a P45 AND a P60, but an employee who leaves on 31st March will always receive a P45 because P60's are only issued to those who are still working for you on 5th April.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "If revenue find the missuse of P60 then they may stop the pension for residents & citizens only not Immigrant who already left the country before the revenue have any action." perhaps you could clarify?

Asking someone why they want/need a copy of their payslip or P60 is just NOT done - even for information only.

keyur778 · PayPerShop Member Joined: 18 Jun 2007 Posts: 57

Jenny

You haven't read my earlier artical which clearly said if emplyee suddenly left the company then this situation ariase.

Small employer who are running the payroll for very less employees for them its not difficult to give P60 on 31 March.

Its upto you how you think this situation.

Keyur Patel

Jennym254 · PayPerShop Regular Joined: 22 Nov 2004 Posts: 72

Keyur

I did read your earlier post and I'm really trying not to get into an argument with you, but the rules clearly state that P60's are only given to those who are in employment with the employer on 5th April. If the employee leaves on 31st March they would not receive a P60, they would receive a P45 (this is the part of my post that I don't think you read).

Small/new employers should read the information provided by HMRC both in booklet form and on the CDROM where it is clearly stated what to do if an employee joins or leaves...and where to get further help or information if they are confused.

The original question was whether or not a duplicate P60 could be issued. I believe the answer has clearly been given by Ian Congreave, Ian Whyteside and Hugo Fair that the answer is YES you can provided that it is clearly marked "duplicate".

Also, should I ask any employee why they wanted a copy of their P60 or payslip I would be quite prepared to be told to mind my own business.
It is after all "their" paperwork and it's up to them what they do with it.

Jenny

keyur778 · PayPerShop Member Joined: 18 Jun 2007 Posts: 57

Jenny,

You are right you should not ask the employee where they are going to use its up to them they want to use bona fide or not, but if you want to keep your self safe and as a part of normal HR process you should request them to send you a request for duplicate P60 by mail or email. If you think this will not help you or its wrong then you should not ask them its up to you. You can keep those things on your HR form non mandatory.

That was my main intension to keep your self safe.

Keyur Patel

coconutzz · PayPerShop Newbie Joined: 14 May 2008 Posts: 1

Hi all,

I would just like to know , if during the tax year , I had worked with 3 companies before, at the end of tax year do I get P60 from all 3 companies?

Thanks
Ron